Increasing Capacity and Capability

[sternwake]

I found some silicon bronze posts, onto which regular battery post clamps attach.  I had them from a Lifeline GPL-31XT that I used as the heart of a 'solar generator', back in 2015.

   

I was thinking of ways to make the 2/0 ring terminal and 2/0 slide through the hall effect sensor, and be able to count total current into or out of the Northstar.  I shaved the sides of the ring terminal, but then it was getting hung up on the heatshrink and I felt I was chasing a dead end for a less than ideal solution.

I decided it would be way simpler and consume less time to just cut off the existing post clamp on the 2awg and clamp on a new one.

   

I did test one of my 2 fairly recently acquired 100 amp hall effect ammeters.

its instructions say the resolution is only 0.3 amps, where as the one that's been on my dashboard for 4+ years, says 0.2 amps resolution.

The resolution on that one is 0.2 amps as stated, but this new one just tested, is 0.1 amps resolution, and it Jibes close enough with my trusted wattmeter, and my Clampmeter as well, at both 0.5 amps, and ~ 35 @ amps, powering the buckethead shopvac from my 18Ah AGM. 

 I actually ripped the Inverter off my wall just to test the ammeter at 35 amps, as without heavily discharged batteries, that is the biggest DC load I can easily conjure.

   

The sensor says 140f max, and NOT waterproof.  I think some carefully applied amazing goop can take care of the latter, and the 140f max limitation might be defeated with the intended heatshield which will block battery from rest of engine compartment.

I adhered the tool box liner to the bottom of my new battery  hold down, and said screw the JB weld and the black Plastidip.  There is no chance the battery can move anymore.

I checked to see if I had the machine screws and nuts on hand to rebuild the 6007m switch, which I expected to explode when I unscrewed it from the wall.  It did not explode, much to my surprise, and switching the Alternator feed from 140 amp circuit breaker from Common stud to battery 2 stud, was relatively simple and painless, also much to my surprise.

The one short cable from CB to stud, was  unacceptable.  One ring terminal was quality, but with huge crimp ears.  The other one was not, and I just cut it off without looking at the crimp under the heatshrink.  Both terminals were attached cable labelled as to  fine strand 4 gauge SAE, which my calipers revealed was much closer to 6awg. 

I found a 3 foot long pre terminated( hammer crimped)  2awg cable I took from the boat. It had overheated trying to start a stubborn Detroit diesel,  and I had one acceptable 2 awg ring terminal.  I cut the cable to the right length, and observed the cooked copper.  I found another length of preterminated Ancor tinned maring 2awg, that was about 2 inches longer than needed and just  used that instead.

This 140 amp circuit breaker did once trip, after several minutes at ~ 90 amps then about 30 seconds of 110 amps and it tripped.  It tripping,  also cut power to voltage regulator , which cut power to field/ rotor and this saved the alternator diodes.  Me thinks the 'sae 4 gauge' cable,  and the poor ring terminals contributed to this CB tripping well below its rating, and the 2awg is certainly an upgrade, but that 'Absolute 140 amp circuit breaker' is so poorly designed, I do not trust it.  It uses an 11 mm nut to secure the ring terminal, but one cannot fit an 11mm socket over it, I have to use an open ended 11mm wrench.

I did not bother starting engine and twisting the dual voltage dials, one for each alternator/ battery bank.

I expect no issues, but also did not want to deal with the curse fest should something not work as expected.

[sternwake]

Went for a drive.

All.works as expected/hoped.
Independent battery banks whose voltage i command with a flick of the wrist.

Insert maniacal laughing here.

The oil pressure idiot light glows very dimly which is brand new behavior.

Mechanical and oem oil pressure gauges read normal.

[sternwake]

I've not bothered to assuage my curiosity about the dimly glowing oil pressure light, by actually testing / experimenting, but my electronics guru buddy seems it is ground loop related.

I did decided to test my '200 amp' hall effect ammeter columb counter.

More chingrish instructions, and once again programming is all done by 2 buttons and how long one holds them and such. While my other hall effect ammeters seem relatively accurate, this one seems to drift after being zeroed.

Zero it, use it, raise eyebrows at its accuracy( lack there of) , remove all loads and it then says +.1 or - 0.1 amps.
I can move the sensor around on teh one wire that is slid through it changes the reading, where the other two HE sensors do not do this.

Its within 2.5 amps my other two ammeters at ~ 35 amps, but it seems like I have to constantly unplug it, and rezero it with no load, just to get somewhat acceptable accuracy.

While I can likely find an 'acceptable' application for it, it was likely a waste of ~25$, and some black tape might cover up every function but amps volts and watts

[sternwake]

   

I decided to put all 3 hall effect ammeters on the same cable, measuring the same load.

I wanted to see if the sensors,  in close proximity to each other, would screw each other up, and how their measurements compared.

They did not screw each other up, even when touching each other.

While one cannot see it, I have covered all the holes in the  Hall effect ring sensors with Amazing goop, and only the exterior perimeter seam and internal ring seam still need to be weatherproofed.

I want to test to see if aluminum tape around the exterior seam screws up the readings.

I will assume it would on the inner seam, and liquid E tape or Amazing goop needs to cover that seam.

My 'trusted' inline shunted wattmeter, has issues bouncing around when powering some loads, and the MSW inverter is one of them.  
The bouncing numbers, if averaged, do generally align with the other meters.  
   The bouncing is annoying, and snap on ferrite cores have no effect.  Previous attempts to stop it with a capacitor also proved ineffective, but I did not  attach it where it could potentially be most beneficial, closest to circuit board attachments.



So 5 ammeters, on same cable, powering a 200 watt heater through an 800 watt MSW inverter via a 18 amp hour Ub12180 AGm battery.
Inline wattmeter:-----18.08 amps
Bayite1:----------------18.1 amp
Bayite2:----------------17.9 amps
Bayite3:----------------19.0 amps
Sears Clampmeter:---18.6 amps.

Bayite 2 or 3 is destined for measuring current into underhood  Northstar AGM-31.  The most important accuracy range in this application is in the 0.5 amp range, as once amps taper to that range at 14.7v, the voltage should be lowered to  13.6v, assuming a 77f battery.

The inverter, when first turned on, powering nothing, spikes to 1.7amps, then settles to a 0.2 amp parasitic draw and much of that is likely the continuously running 40mm fan.
After powering an item for a while, then the item turned off, the parasitic load is 0.7 amps.
Turn inverter off and back on, 0.7 amps, powering nothing

All meters read 0.7 amps and those with hundredths  read 0.67 to 0.72amps

Bayite 1 is likely destined for the adjustable voltage 100 amp powermax power supply as it counts amp hours. I could try and rig it up to count amps hours into and out of the workshop battery bank, but this is likely a waste of time, and I dont trust the meter enough anyway.

I have an AC hall effect ammeter, as of yet, completely untested.
  I considered putting it on the 200 watt heater's AC cord, for this testing tonight but I suspect the MSW waveform would screw with it, and getting it over only one of its wires means cutting and butt splicing the power cord.

[sternwake]

Decided to section off the group 31 NS AGM battery from the rest of the Hood with Reflectix to protect it from heat soaking, and to prevent the hall effect sensors from overheating past their claimed 140f limit.

Glad I built the group 31 battery tray wider than I needed, so I can have 1/2"+  space all around the battery so it itself, can shed heat when high amp recharging.

The headlamp has the ability to add heat to this general area as well.  My  g31 tray is lowered as far as possible, and the limiting factor is the H4 plug of the headlamp.

There remains the possibility of venting this battery enclosure to the quarter panel which vents out the 'ram air' wiper valance.

Could even add a fan on a snap switch.


The 150 amp Bussman circuit breaker's studs are not impressively sized, not for 2 AWG, much less 2/0, and my ring terminals don't have the perfect hole size for those studs.

I've made a fatter pure copper footprint prototype  for the ring terminal to rest upon and mitigate that lack of contact surface, somewhat.

It's very nice to be able push button disconnect the alternator from the battery

   
   

I've decided to have the ability to monitor, from driver's seat, total ND alternator output with a sensor on the + 2awg from ND, and total current into or out of G31 battery on its 2AWG ground cable from Shunt.

I'm not really happy with potential mounting locations of the ammeter displays, but the stock Oil pressure gauge is kind of worthless since I have a separate mechanical gauge which responds instantly to rpm.
2 layers of that vinyl window tint tame the green light to tolerable at night levels. 3 layers and it cannot be read in bright light.  Really wish they were red, not green, Oh well.

Having driven once at night with depleted Dekas, and a fully charged G31, it was awesome having the Chrybosch alternator feeding the Dekas 50+ amps at 14.41v, and the ND floating the g31 AT 13.59v, powering headlamps, and Hvac blower.

Previously, the lights and other loads would allow only ~35 amps for battery charging  at hot idle in drive foot on the brake, and either alternator was not able to maintain the chosen absorption voltage on its own.

[Scott7022]

What brand is the magnetic circuit breaker and what is your opinion of it. I’ve found many to be hit and miss with some brands doing better than others. Blue Sea if I had to guess but hence the question. Good idea with the contact strips. Iam stealing that.


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[sternwake]

Blueseas often rebrands Eaton Bussman products.

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.CB185-150.html

I have a lesser 140 amp 'absolute' brand thermal circuit breaker on my other alternator's circuit.
It tripped after several minutes of 90 amps and less than 30 seconds of ~ 110 amps.

I suspect less than ideal contact between ring terminals and Cb studs, played a considerable part in that less than desirable outcome.

I would like to replace it with Bussman, but will save that task for if I ever replace the doubled 6 gauge Sae jumper cable circuit feeding it.

These two CB's ar ethe only ones I have experience with.

The 'absolute' brand, takes an 11mm wrench, but the stud is so close to the 'wall' of the circuit breaker, an 11mm socket will not fit over the nut, and I have to use an 11mm open end wrench.

I paid nearly 3x more for the Eaton/bussman than I did the 'absolute' thermal circuit breaker, and hope it is worthy of the premium.

I did once install a Bussman circuit breaker on a neighbors RV as a main disconnect to eliminate parasitic draws. It was problem free for years, so I assume the lever reconnect / push button disconnect is rated for several hundred cycles, and he said it never tripped that her knew of.

Doubled 6AWG cable, would be equivalent resistance to 3 awg cable, so I really should replace the doubled 6 gauge SAE cable, with 2awg.

The chrybosch alternator is the more capable alternator, yet now has the longer thinner circuit, and the shittier circuit breaker.

I've not pushed the ND alternator hard since wiring it back up, but hope it prefers its new location away from E manifold. There is room for a 92mm powerful fan aimed at its backside.

I'll have to see what the thermocouple reads when I give it a good workout, and then decide.

[sternwake]

I made a larger, better fitting footpad for the 2/0 cable from CB, to battery + stud.

The tinned marine 2 awg from 6mm alternator+ output stud to footpad, was tuned a little more as well for a better fit.

I wish I could have waited a day for re- assembly as I have some NO-OX-ID A special on order, a conductive protective grease, which just arrived as I type this.

The new G31 battery tray got removed, the old lifter spacers removed and new thicker ones relocated for maximum support which still allows ventilation/ drainage, and complete support from below.

Captured EPDM conical SS washers sandwich the fastener holding tray to fenderwell supports.

The SS fasteners are not isolated from ground as hoped on initial this re assembly, but the battery tray is isolated from fasteners, and the 1/4-20 all thread rods are electrically isolated from battery tray.
There is some degree of vibration dampening occurring too, with this electrical isolation.

The top crossover strap will be electrically isolated from the all thread, but as of right now, is not.

I depleted the G31 Northstar , 63 of its 103( when new), amp hours last night.

I temporarily attached a 3 decimal voltmeter to the Field output terminal of the transpo540-HD adjustable voltage regulator, and hooked my clampmeter over the field wire.

Also, my bayite ammeter display was temporarily fed power and hooked to the sensor.

On engine startup, the alternator belt squealed for a bit( 5 seconds), and when it stopped squealing, the ND was feeding the NS g31 AGM, 75 amps or so. Revving engine slightly had Ammeter display ---, which means over 100 amps. I still have my tach disconnected.

Looking over my shoulder at shunted ammeter and saw 109 amps and revving to near 2K rpm got as high as 116.

max field amperage ever noted, was 5.4 amps at just below battery voltage.
Blipping throttle would raise field( and battery) voltage quickly, and amperage, and then would both field volts and amps would quickly fall.

I only got the coolant upto normal temperature, the engine oil was nowhere near for this test, so it is incomplete.

The shorter fatter copper circuit from ND alternator to hungry healthy depleted northstar AGM, seems to indicate, that the chrybosch's circuit is much more resistive than expected, or the heat of shielded manifold really irked the ND alternator, and or I just did not get ND hot enough for that measly 32 amp max previously noted at hot idle foot on the brake amperage that I noted before.

Anyway, ND alternator performance 'seems to be improved' in its new location with a fatter circuit to battery, but there could be asterix's involved as I do not enjoy idling the engine, wasting gas, just to watch number displays change slightly.

That the ~22 month old Northstar can still accept 116+ amps, makes me happy.

I should have turned one 1/2/B/O switch to 'both', so both alternators could feed the Northstar, and I could see what its current 'quench' amperage is, the amps required to instantly reach a high absorption voltage.

This 'quench' amperage is a bit weird, in that the batteries seem to need time to wake up to a high amp slap in the face. Every time I have taken the Northstar's this low, and fed them high amperage, the maximum ouput of the powermax or meanwell, or both in parallel, battery voltage quickly rises to absorption voltage , but then over the period of a few minutes amps stay the same, and voltage drops to 14.1v, sometimes lower, then starts slowly climbing back up. This 'wake up effect' can really skew the observers perception of what is going on as it might seem 100 amps is the quench amperage, but a minute later it might be perhaps, 160, or more. Still unknown.

All the connections at battery stayed cool passing the 75+ amps in the time it took the coolant temp gauge to read low normal.

I plugged in the 100 amp powermax after engine shutdown. When I dialed voltage slowly up to 14.5v over a minute, the battery was accepting 87 amps from it.

These 87 amps flowing through shitty aluminum 4 gauge and shitty ring terminals BS6007m switch interconnects.

The bayite ammeter reads within 2 amps of my shunted meter at 75 amps and within 1 amp of my clampmeter.

Subjectively, ....Good enough!

Lead acid batteries, will always have that ~3.5 hours from 80% to 100% no matter what factor, and needing the 100% achieved regularly to not prematurely lose capacity and performance.
They will never compete with lithium in this regard.

Much of the 64 amp hours depleted from the Northstar G31 agm overnight, 34 of them, were from heating a 4.5 gallon showerbag of 78f water to 114f. If the battery is low and the rpms a few hundred above hot idle, returning that used to heat the water can be accomplished relatively quickly, safely, with a TPPL AGM.

I hope when i am next due for batteries, that Lithium is similarly priced per AH, and that capacity can accept more than the 0.5c rate, as my 103Ah 22 month Northstar has no issues accepting 116 amps.

The bottom of the battery tray has been thermally insulated, and the battery itself is now sectioned off from the rest of the engine compartment so it cannot, or at least should not heatsoak from high underhood engine temperatures.

I need to heat shield the 190 Ah Deka AGM's too, as the exhaust pipe is about 18 inches away from their sides.

I wonder what their quench amperage is?

Sometimes they max out my 40 amp meanwell power supply longer than i expect.

Well, these be them productive hours, yet here I am typing that alternator, solar and powermax juice into the ether.

[sternwake]

The 116 amp figure I noted, is alternator amperage into the battery, and likely does not include the amperage required to run fuel pump and Ignition, and the field current sent to alternator rotor itself.

I think my 200 amp hall effect ammeter/ Ah counter needs to be fitted to the alternator circuit, as I cannot rev the engine standing from the hood to view clampmeter hooked over a battery cable.

I had intended the alternator ammeter to be the same bayite on the 2 awg ground cable at battery, which I still managed to reverse before crimping on the new negative FTZ post clamp - is + and versavisa but these ammeters just put a decimal after the tenth of an amp instead of a - or positive sign.

My first dashboard digital ammeter, was first wired to display total alternator amps, but once that curiosity was assuaged I moved the sensor to read amps into or out of the underbody battery. I think the 200 amp ammeter for alternator will likely be temporary.

The temporary wiring of the 100 amp ammeter, is kind of nice to have glowing with the engine off. I think I might power these ammeters on a toggle switch instead of switched on with ignition.

2 layers of that vinyl mirror tint is just about perfect light level at night, and a bit dim if the sun is low and in my eyes.

My heating pad temp controller just got 2 layers of same tint, to dim its red and blue numbers, which were rather obscenely bright, at night.

Having not deep cycled the Northstar since bringing the dekas online, when I did drain it last night the voltage held was not impressive for amp hours removed.

Tonight watching voltage for 18ah removed and it was still 12.84 under a 2.3 amnp load. I thought the voltmeter was reading the Dekas which are completely charged and disconnected from all loads, but nope, the Northstar just proving once again it loves the high amp recharge high duration recharge from a well depleted state.

This is not the only battery, nor the only time that I've noticed a battery getting lazy when livin' Easy, shallowly cycled and topped up and floated hear and there.

Makes me think the quick deeper discharge followed immediately by a higher amp recharge to truly full, could be beneficial to even flooded cheapo starter batteries. They will age out no matter what, so perhaps a deep cycle here and there can give one's house batteries a rest, and perhaps the time to be truly fully charged.

[Scott7022]

I liked the slap analogy and correct, and something I’ve never thought to measure. Oh it’s taking 100 amps at 45% that’s the output. Futzing with something else and missing the few minutes at higher. Noted!


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