How many use a 1/2/both manual switch vs an isolator solenoid?

[TWIH]

Hi all,

I rarely post anymore as I just read and watch YT videos until I think I’ve learned something.
Anyway, I have been wondering if I should use the ACR or other style of electrical solenoid vs. the simple manual switch (either on/off or 1/2/both).

I get that the manual switch can lead to forgetting to turn it on/off however there are enough negative Amazon reviews about the various Stinger, Battery Dr, Blue Seas and other brands ACR’s that I’m thinking that the manual switch might be better.

The total control over the house battery charging is kinda’ nice as getting the v belt all warmed up before dumping a draw on it (slippage/squealing) may be desirable. 

Thoughts?

[rvpopeye]

I think you already know what you're gonna do.

You seem to understand the points to consider.
I pose this question....do you have anything better to do than having the batteries charge exactly when you want them to ?


Now,,,,are you seriously considering taking advise from weirdo #1... 

Which way costs the most... is it worth it?

[Blacktank]

a good constant duty solenoid with silver contacts is a much better connection than a switch,i use a cole hersee with silver contacts and have a toggle hooked to the activation wire so i can control when it works or not,reliant on if i remember to to switch the toggle on/off

[sternwake]

A CD solenoid requires about 0.8 amps to power the electromagnet, and hold the main contacts together.

I've measured 1.4 amps on one solenoid, and it jumped 4 inches off the table when i hooked it up, but i believe this is a starter solenoid.

I employ Three 1/2/both/off switches, Blueseas 6007m.

One switch is for the ignition/ Stock circuitry
One switch is for all loads other than ignition
One switch is for the solar and plug in charging sources

But now I only use one battery and all switches are turned to battery 2 and stay there, as I no longer have a battery in position 1 where Chrysler originally mounted the battery underhood.


My blue seas 1/2/both/off switches are rated at 300 amps continuous, 500 amps intermittent and 900amps for 30 seconds of engine cranking)

The silver contact Cole Hersee 24213 solenoid is rated at 200 continuous

So hearing that the solenoid is a much better connection, is a bit of a head scratcher.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/6007/m-...itch_-_Red

http://colehersee.com.au/product/spst-12...-solenoid/

Now most toggle/rocker switches are good for only 15 amps. Not a fair comparison.

But here is a high current switch, rated at 180amps continuous and 1000 intermittent, and the 200 amp solenoid specs obviously beat it, but does 20 amps imply 'much' better?

https://www.amazon.com/Fastronix-Current-Master-Battery-Disconnect/dp/B011EYWMDS/ref=sr_1_12_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=battery+switch&qid=1587066584&sr=8-12-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzNURaR1U2V0lQSEZTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjg3MDM3Mkk4QVVRSkhFWjMySSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjgzMDA0WU5WOERFNzhFU01JJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Here's a 300 amp version:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L2JRHRQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07L2JRHRQ&pd_rd_w=osO4F&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=QtE0z&pf_rd_r=ZH0G38T2G3C7A0KDXZM5&pd_rd_r=1df0b539-97e8-401a-b99a-2f783dea7676&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExQTJCNzNDTUlYUzhNJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzc1NDk3MzczUks3SFhXNFNLSyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjgzMzQwMU9WQlVaSkxXREo0WCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=



As far as the automatic charge relays which sense voltage and connect or disconnect, I don't like how they function, especially when solar panels are involved. I think they are only a good solution for people who demand 'automatic' but can't figure out how to find a trigger circuit which activates a continuous duty solenoid.

[frater secessus]

The total control over the house battery charging is kinda’ nice as getting the v belt all warmed up before dumping a draw on it (slippage/squealing) may be desirable. 

The voltage sensing ones (VSR) let the starter batt come up a bit before closing the circuit.  In my experience it's typically a few seconds.  Dunno if that does anything for you.

I have a Battery Dr for 3 years with no complaints.  I used the combiner button on it last year (?) when I ran the starter batt down.  It stays connected for a few minutes, after which I cranked her up.

[frater secessus]

A CD solenoid requires about 0.8 amps to power the electromagnet, and hold the main  contacts together.
...
As far as the automatic charge relays which sense voltage and connect or disconnect, I don't like how they function, especially when solar panels are involved.  I think they are only a good solution for people who demand 'automatic' but can't figure out how to find a trigger circuit which activates a continuous duty solenoid.

Latching versions don't have that consumption, do they?


I put a high voltage disconnect on the ground wire going to my VSR;  it keeps the panels from holding the circuit closed.   My thinking on it in this blog post.

I have some continuous duty solenoids in a box in the van, but the the VSR delay between starting the vehicle and closing the circuit might ease strain on the alt.  There's definitely a delay before I hear the VSR click...

[sternwake]

Latching solenoids only require a momentary burst of ~11+ volts dc to latch or unlatch, requires a special switch to activate. Using a regular switch could work, but one would have to flip it on and off quickly to engage and the same to disengage. leaving it connected to 10+v full time eill have a latching solenoid heat up greatly and perhaps damage it. They likely also briefly, draw significantly more, than a non latching CTD, and leaving a regular rocker switch on would likely draw 4 amps continuously.

A cold alternator on a cold engine, an engine which idles pretty high after start up, will easily be able to make 50+ amps and this can usually raise voltage above 13.2 in a second or two at which point the solenoid parallels the batteries, so the whole 'fills the starrting batrtery before allowing house battery to charge is indeed accurate, but it is only for a second, and maybe upto 10 depending on just how discharged the starting battery is and its health, and how much amperage the alternator can make when cold at cold engine idle speeds.

Why I don;t like voltage sensing solenoids is that it takes a long while after engine shutdown for surface charge voltage to bleed off and many VSense solenoids will keep the two batteries in parallel for hours, and during this the weaker is feeding slightly on the stronger battery., If one has solar then they will keep voltage above that sensed separation voltage into late afternoon/evening. If the solenoid is drawing 8 to 10 watts while they are parallelled, then that is 8 or 10 watts not going into the still potentially well depleted house battery . This is nitpicking really and perhaps of little to no consequence to either battery, and if one is indeed cycling the starting battery slightly then can be beneficial for it.

back when I had a starting battery and a house battery, i did my best to never allow the starter battery to see ANY loads, other than starting the engine, and the Vsense solenoids would not have allowed total separation instantly on engine shut down.

But I also had to remember to turn the switch(s) from both to 2 in order to achieve instant total isolation. Id often forget and switches, like solenoids do wear out. My previous 1/2/both/off switch was a 'Guest' and I noticed input and output solar voltages lower than expected after passing a lot of amperage through it, and my IR temp gun revealed what my fingers felt, that the contacts were worn out and producing heat, which was likely wasting a few watts of solar juice and a dozen or more alternator watts.

There's no one right way to accomplish battery separation/combination and hundreds of potential considerations. I totally understand the mindset that does not care to consider those considerations and just wants it to work without knowing exactly why.

Lots of personal preference does not make for fact, unless there is actual accurately collected and interpreted to prove benefits or detractions. , and That's too much effort to do unless simply super curious and bored with too much free time, or to be paid to do it.

[Gr8ful]

Hi all,

I rarely post anymore as I just read and watch YT videos until I think I’ve learned something.
Anyway, I have been wondering if I should use the ACR or other style of electrical solenoid vs. the simple manual switch (either on/off or 1/2/both).

I get that the manual switch can lead to forgetting to turn it on/off however there are enough negative Amazon reviews about the various Stinger, Battery Dr, Blue Seas and other brands ACR’s that I’m thinking that the manual switch might be better.

The total control over the house battery charging is kinda’ nice as getting the v belt all warmed up before dumping a draw on it (slippage/squealing) may be desirable. 

Thoughts?

For a few $$ more use both.

[sternwake]

Having been Given a CD solenoid, I once thought about wiring it up to automatically charge my 18Ah AGM when driving.

I later got an 'ideal diode' and put it inside failed wattmeter's casing. When attached in line, Anytime my regular system voltage is higher than the 18Ah agm's voltage via alternator, solar or plug in charging source it will charge it with only 0.03 to 0.04v drop across it, unlike regular diodes which drop 10x that amount. So with this product there is no need for the solenoid or the effort of wiring it up.

But it will also overcharge it as once full it will not need to be brought to 14.7v when my main likely battery does.
So I rarely use it.

The Ideal diode is not a true electrical check valve though. If loads are placed on downstream AGM battery as soon as its voltage falls below that of the main battery it will allow the other battery to feed the it.