Battleborn batteries

[Blacktank]

first,they are crazy expensive,not seeing how you would get your money out of a $950 100 amp hour battery

second,seem every other utuber has some,up to 6 for one guy,must have the same marketing company as renogy,give away stuff to people who dont know the difference and they say how great they are


noticed this with those jackery 25ah battery packs for like $500 too


just wanted folks to know that for the price of one battleborn you can build a pretty nice complete system that should last you years,my current minimalist system that runs lights,laptop,radio,water pump and two fans cost $290 plus wire,need more solar panel though

[justjim]

You are correct although I do not suggest BattleBorn a the brand to buy. I suggest LifeBlue for the blue tooth app that shows you exactly what the state of charge is as well as amps in and out, temp, status and number of cycles.

Lithium are the latest buzz word product. 6 Volts, AGM's Pure sine wave, MPPT, as well as a host of others are buzz words that people try to make out as the end all as far as that type of product goes. What people do not understand is while a product may be the best at something, that something is only a benefit to you if it matters.

I just installed a set of 100 Ah Lithium's in a Sprinter Roadtrek. It doubled the storage capacity without increasing the footprint. No other type of battery was going to do that for the customer.

Three of those batteries effectively replaces my three Lifeline 8-D's. A much smaller footprint and a quarter of the weight too. My trailer handles a quarter ton of weight with its 3000 pound CCC but that kind of weight takes a chunk out of most rigs cargo capacities.

The blue tooth replaces a lot of angst about state of charge. No amp counters, hydrometers, voltage charts, holding absorption until...GUESSING. Just charge them until they stop the charging and you are done.

While the salesperson at Starlight Solar told me that in reality Lithiums DO need to reach 100 percent from time to time, it is true that not reaching it all the time is not damaging to the battery like it is with lead. While you may not understand that if you have shore power, out here in the wild because it may mean you do not need the generator, alternator or shore power as long as you do not run out of power.

Now if you have the room, can handle the weight and can keep lead acid batteries properly charged then it will be a hard sell to say that the difference in cost is worth the additional cycles. You can replace a set of marine batteries or pair of 6 volts many times before they cost as much as one Lithium does. In my case my Lifelines are 9 years old and still service my needs. Lifelines are not that much cheaper than Lithium but even so, I doubt either I or my trailer will last long enough to wear a new set out.

So it's all in how you look at it but it may not be a direct cost comparison.

[sternwake]

Lithium batteries are a different animal.

I always enjoy how Mainesail breaks things down.

A good read for those interested:

https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

[justjim]

Man, that makes one of your post seem short. I didn't think that was possible.

[tx2sturgis]

If you divide out the lifetime amp-hours, LiFePo4 batteries make more sense.

They have other advantages also.

Suppose your typical laptop, which uses a lithium battery, could be bought for half the price with a lead-acid battery installed.

You can only use it for less than half the number of hours (compared with LI) on battery power. You must keep it topped off all the time. If you discharge it more than about 50% the life will be shortened, so you only really can use it for a couple of hours on battery. It will also weigh a LOT more.

It will off-gas when charging, so you need to make sure the laptop is ventilated to the outdoors when plugged in and charging.

Now and then you have to open the lid and check the water levels.

No thanks!

[Blacktank]

no doubt they are better but it's a $150 battery vs a $950 battery,is there $800 difference in performance there?

good thing is as time goes by lithiums will get better,easier and prices will fall,remember when solar panels cost a fortune and now anything over $1 per watt is a rip off

[justjim]

no doubt they are better but it's a $150 battery vs a $950 battery,is there $800 difference in performance there?

They are only better if you must have what only they offer. Based on price alone when only cycles matter? Not really. You can get the cycles out of multiple sets of Lead acid batteries and still be ahead in the long run.

They are not the only premium battery out there and there is not a huge difference in cost between my bank new and three 100 Ah Lithium batteries. I would have to reason between the weight/footprint/cycle difference vs the higher charging/discharging rate/durability and recover-ability of my Lifeline's. The blue tooth app is nice but in my case I do not run a generator because I am worried about getting my bank back up to 100% when it's cloudy. I run it because I took a hell of a lot of power out of the bank last night and want to do it again tonight. There is nothing special about Lithium's that make it so I do not have to replace the power I took if I want to take it again. Either way I will run out of power if I do not run the generator.

That was the error in Technomadia's concept of a no generator system. What do you do if you run out of power? In a discussion with the owner of a bank of Lithium's I heard all kinds of lame things until out of frustration they gave up and said YOU MOVE! So instead of using a quiet little generator that sips gas you pack up your rig, fire up the most expensive, gas guzzling generator possible...a V8 and drive to where the sun is shining. Lithium or not, I am keeping my generator.

[sternwake]

What does one do with LIfepo4 batteries once they are done? are there recyclers, does one call in a hazmat handling service?

I mean Lead is toxic stuff, and recycling lead acid batteries is energy intensive, but there is existing infrastructure for doing so.

The lead acid vs lithium battery thing is lot of facts, opinion, and philosophy. Shame when the latter two get pushed towards the former.

I have intense interest in Lifepo4, but I will be sticking with lead acid AGM when the time comes to replace my existing high$$ AGM. Heck i could at this point get good enough service from a wally world 110$ group 29 too, but I don't want to have to water or EQ it every dozen deep cycles.

At some point I Might set up a small 60AH prisimatic Lifepo4 4 cell portable down the line, to get myself to get familiar with them, but a full blown switch over is not going to happen anytime soon, not for me.

I would not want a 'drop in' Lifepo4, as that takes away some opportunity to learn and requires one put faith in other's BMS engineering and marketing and marketing in this day and age is largely lies switch and bait for honorless maximum profit.

[tx2sturgis]

no doubt they are better but it's a $150 battery vs a $950 battery,is there $800 difference in performance there?

I bought a single 100ah Batttle Born and it was $800 brand new in the box...no tax or shipping because I bought it at the Quartzfest Hamfest last January. 

Not a smoking deal, but reasonable, compared to online. So that would bring the price difference down a bit.

It got me in the large LiFePo4 game, mainly for my ham radio stuff, although I used it (along with a 100w solar panel and a lithium charger and generator) for powering a 12v compressor fridge (in freezer mode) for a bit over 3 weeks.

I like how it accepts a grid or genset powered charge very quickly. This cuts generator run time.

A mini nit-pick though, with BattleBorn at least, is that it is difficult to tell exactly how much charge percentage I have used, at least with my controller.

I know there are pieces of tech that will tell me what I have used and what I have left, but since it is a minor issue, I just guess...kindve like using any rechargeable device with no charge meter...like a cordless drill or rechargeable flashlight, or an electric shaver.  You just use it for awhile, then you recharge it for awhile. No biggie. I have yet to deplete it fully. But, conversely, I dont really know for sure how close I'm getting to a full discharge. 

For radio operations, lithiums are very popular in the ham radio hobby, since the batteries seem taylor-made for powering electronics, with a large reserve capacity and a long service life, plus a pretty constant discharge voltage....which is handy with radios that like to see 13 volts or so for full power output when transmitting.

I decided not to use mine, at this time, for house battery use in my trailer. Maybe later, when the existing lead-acids give up...maybe.

[TWIH]

first,they are crazy expensive,not seeing how you would get your money out of a $950 100 amp hour battery

second,seem every other utuber has some,up to 6 for one guy,must have the same marketing company as renogy,give away stuff to people who dont know the difference and they say how great they are


noticed this with those jackery 25ah battery packs for like $500 too


just wanted folks to know that for the price of one battleborn you can build a pretty nice complete system that should last you years,my current minimalist system that runs lights,laptop,radio,water pump and two fans cost $290 plus wire,need more solar panel though

Yea but you aren’t “cool” and have the latest sheeit.  Maybe they are nice but so is a new van. If you have the cash to throw at them (either one), go ahead, it’s still a free country. If you are on a strict budget like most of us, probably never gonna’ happen.

Nothing wrong with early adopters proving it out, same with solar panels 20 years ago.