04-13-2021, 11:37 PM
Consolidating a plan.
The second 50/120 Nippondenso alternator is mounted and nearly perfectly aligned, but unwired as of yet.
There are Four 6v GC-2 AGMs on my workshop's floor.
190 amps hours, 900 CA. 680 CCA. 480 reserve minutes 140 LBS total 70 Lbs each
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-mari...--15020282
The TPPL AGM g31 Northstar:
103 amp hours, 1380CA. 1050CCA. 220 reserve minutes. 75Lbs.
https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/nsb-agm31
The GC-2's are 4+ years old, but were kept in pretty good shape by a programmable Magnum inverter charger, and rarely ever cycled. I am not quite sure how good of shape they are. When they were still on the boat, I saw them maintain 12.4v powering 40 to 60 amps of inverter load for about an hour, IIRC.
They are more capacity than my workshop needs, as I do have grid power available, So two of them will be going in the Van. Once there I can better judge their remaining capacity.
Right now, 4 of them maintain respectable voltage powering fans and LEDS for hours on end, and when I let loose the 100 amp powermax adjustable voltage power supply on them, they can max it out, which they likely could not if they were not in Ok to good or perhaps better condition.
The underbody battery box was designed to hold two group 27's, which are about 9.25" to the tops of their terminals.
The group 31 is about 9.625" tall to the top of its terminals, and has perhaps 1/8" until the hatch's underside
The GC-2s are taller at 10.5 inches. Some GC-2s go as tall as 11 inches.
Right now, a single group 31 Northstar AGM is my only IN van battery.
The Stock size battery is apparently a 600 CCA group 34 according to RockAuto. I have used a group 24 and a group 27 and even barely shoehorned in a group 31 flooded marine battery on the stock battery tray, in the engine compartment.
I think my Owner's manual states the engine battery needs to be 550 CCA or bigger.
In 2015, that flooded marine group 31 became too wasteful of Solar, and I removed it, and the rusted battery tray it resided upon.
I was modifying the area to fit a large GC-12 size battery, like a Trojan T-1275 or the Lifeline GpL-30HT. This required getting a new Windshield wiper reservoir, and the project started stalling.
While considering the options, I realized the single group 27 Northstar AGM I had, was more than capable of meeting my overnight needs, and still easily start my engine, So the Engine compartment remained free of a battery, or battery tray, until yesterday. That 90 amp hour 930CCA AGM TPPL battery lasted a total of 6 years and had something like 1200 deep cycles on it, many hundred cycles discharged to well below the 50% SOC boogeyman.
It was replaced with a G31 Northstar AGM in Mid December 2019. 103Ah and 1050CCA. This Beastly TPPL AGM battery cranks the engine so quickly it is scary, and it has accepted 134 amps when well depleted. I think somewhere around 160 to 170 amps would be required to instantly reach absorption voltage when well depleted. Soon I will have upto 230 amps available bfrom dual alternators.
That single 31 has been Solo, in the dual 27 tray, behind the driver's seat under a flush fitting hatch in the floor, inside a cabinet one of whose walls is my electrical wall.
None of the wiring/Cabling there is pretty. Functional, problem free, but ugly. Some crappy components, crimped with crappy tools, at different times, to different standards over nearly 20 years.
I want to be able to max out a 2000 watt PSW inverter, that I do not yet own.
I want both alternators to be able to supply at least 1000 watts of that load at hot idle, to that potential 2000 watt load.
I want all that old cabling thickened, properly terminated with professional quality tools and components, and better organized.
The group 27 battery box is just under 10 inches high to the bottom of the hatch.
The AGM GC-2s are 10.5 tall.
The Hatch cover is being rebuilt to accept 11 inch tall batteries with a few CH's extra room atop..
A New group 31 battery tray is Now in place in my engine compartment. I used a door from an older AC electrical box, and some thick angle brackets my old man gave me.
It is mounted about 3/4" lower than the stock battery tray was. I let Ospho etch all the metal and covered it with several layers of Yacht enamel before installing and painting one final layer over it all.
Dodge has some weird drainage with the ram air vents below the windshield, but basically rain water used to be allowed to run under hood and run along the inside of the firewall, and these vents would also allow some water to run inside and into the engine compartment as well.
I used some tool box liner to divert all rainwater, but found water was still getting where I thought it should not be able to.
Strong light and a mirror revealed some cracked original panel adhesive up above the where the stock battery tray resided. A chisel removed the body filler and revealed the rust below.
In removing and treating the rust, the hood got removed, as well as the wiper valance, and both those got treated for rust and repainted.
While Ospho treats and preps both paint and rusted or bare metal for paint quite well, the paint I use requires some 20+ hours between thin coats.
My surfboard epoxy can go on thicker, be more impervious to moisture, and bond significantly stronger to anything it is put upon. All the areas which once had the body panel adhesive , after proper prepwork, were painted with Epoxy, and then the big gaps and holes filled with Epoxy thickened with Milled glass fibers and wood flour. Once that cured and was lightly sanded it was painted. Then the angle brackets/supports and new Battery tray installed and painted again.
I have some HDPE 'starboard' that I cut into 1/8" thick strips and used Amazing goop to adhere to the tray. These will raise the battery up slightly from the bottom of the tray, and while no rainwater should be able to get in/on the battery tray anymore, it will be able to drain if it does.
So the 31 is basically ready to be moved, and then I can work on getting the GC-2s in place and wiring them up.
There is 2 AWG running from Battery tray to 1/2/BOTH/off Ignition switch and to Shunt.
I'd like to replace this with 1/0 or 2/0. but...Ideal costs $$$$$$$$.
According to GenuineDealz,
If the NS 31 could maintain 11 volts, 2000 watts is a 181 amp load.
But I never intend to run 2000 watts from just the G31, and the Alternators will likely be contributing 50+ amps each on their own 2awg cabling when I 'need' 2000 watts, and the battery switches are rated for 350 amps continuous, if wired with 4/0.
So two battery banks and two Alternators powering the potential 2000 watt load will have 4 runs of 2 awg.
Perhaps not ideal from a voltage drop standpoint, but in all honestly I am not expecting more than 1600 watts of load at any one time.
But I have some leftover 2/0, and only a short run is needed from GC-2s to 1/2/B/O switch.
Likewise the distance between my 3 1/2/B/O switches means I can run 2/0 between them. The Other 2 switches divert the load from either battery, or the solar/ plug in grid powered charging sources to either battery.
I have a shitty Absolute brand '140' amp circuit breaker. This CB is currently on the Alternator to battery switch feed. It once tripped after 5 minutes of 90+ amps and then a few seconds of 110 amps. I later found that the cabling to the switch had a very poor crimp, from 2006 or so. Doubled 6awg from jumpoer cables.
Think hammer and screwdriver and I could wiggle wire and see strands move on the other end of the crimp. Shameful really. I have nearly 8 foot of 2 AWg from the boat, but think I need closer to 11 feet to get from Chrysler alternator to circuit breaker. Making the case for retasking the 2awg from battery switch to engine battery and using 2/0.......
I have a new Cooper Bussman 150 amp circuit breaker. The Chrysler alternator can just slightly exceed its 120 amp rating, the New Nippondenso alternator came in 11 amps shy of its 120 amp rating.
I guess I'll be putting the Absolute 140 amp CB on the ND alternator, and the Bussman on the Chrysler alternator.
My 500 amp Deltec shunt has too many terminals on it, especially the load side.
I want to make a Buss bar that fits on this shunt directly. Big thick copper with fat Studs.
Turns out these free GC-2 batteries are going to cost me a lot of time and money, as I cant seem to not upgrade everything just in case I need to be in the middle of nowhere and power a tablesaw without having to carry a generator.
Still need to wire up the second alternator. I have the second voltage regulator all modded for external control, but need to incorporate switches to turn on either or or both.
Also want to be able to see amperage from each alternator, and amperage into / out of each battery bank
not enough room on dash for these displays.
I got two more of the hall effect ammeters, same as already on my Dash, and one which claims to be am amp hour counter battery monitor as well, but I think it just reverts to '100%' as soon as the preprogrammed absorption voltage is reached. I've not yet really played with it yet, other than to see if it lit up with voltage applied.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC300V-400A-LCD-Hall-Effect-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Battery-Capacity-Coulometer-Sensor/174047263019?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item288606792b:g:9BoAAOSwnXpdkHiq&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkSG%252BOFgrj2Yvbvmrj2TAdM3PJ1eaPAHxkaTJuCcI%252BHZS%252F9%252F7KDp1em4H3NA1eBrcFV%252BS6Yveujf9Jjj8kZ8DCOVwH8r9lWCvi7OhsMEg1tkZg2vmRnrjIzsBpj4wIpZDxoSa5exLWKifeP3%252BHTMrOIalB%252FTVDo4TvUXGDiBHx6zRaPb6HdVQ9TePvUWFlChe6tnY%252BRkgBHa1VOe7GmYBMSIrcy1HZBl9H8kUo8gpwNs0Xqo2OI7FLpn44%252B1Rpar%252FliLELgKwShvI4wIUsWpbWSFlVJUBvT6Dnv4O%252FniaDCgcFo5tCbtmX8enx8Ie6HeqmTAP%252FErtCsXBY%252F2dX%252FUk99ALNwfOoTi9QQ9PTOHMAxuF7bUa%252BL4TXNboNj1A%252Brm%252BzgIUnNeeqbHq8uYp28dayYWF3REXMwj%252BWsPHHn65qk8xeaoHCWF6PQgcO4Eg%252B1j19m8iLyXf05WY6fq6r3FfhEELwmTvJGwubhZ1%252BLU34zvqV2xmiMya9F110WmjpOvMEJ21tPFn6sFjWAWcAXRVkAvVWB2DeuuIh1ftgO6p648Ru8g5VMOhs3zptH8Pc1Ul32iMdLISSZra9%252B5wX%252F71YoJyCY4gpmOLdqJ9%252BEgcf3HnrI%252FMvMaQ15RYR1inJpKTioV1I3EqV2aUrvUZRZB6OWuT93ij%252FZ0aB6vp%252BLNvodFtiew256j35ILZYetJ%252FNmI8Z9Vo%252FjsniFUxZUWVbg42A7jBQHOdzZsyxwjVAmP8YjJ7tyrSYLFJNCV%252BIpGiKPUAdB4kIiKo%252Bb7PWW3PPEVpzN%252Fh4U7KX%252BiyeugPFADAjeU%253D%7Ccksum%3A17404726301949e6d1dd0a994859b5ecae6887e2eaab%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
Was hoping to further consolidate my plan, but now I just have a headache.
The cardboard is the maximum dimensions of a group 31 footprint. The actual footing is slightly smaller.
While I only recently got the battery tray installed, I did wind up painting the area white in 2015. The grey black areas are where the original panel adhesive was. The grey is primer and original paint color, the black is rust turned black by the Ospho.
The Orange plastic is the ceramic H4/9003/HB4 headlight socket with the hard to find 12 AWG pigtails for maximum voltage delivery to filament and thus max brightness.
ThisH4 headlight Connector determined the height of the battery tray.
I have about 1/4 inch gap between the bottom of the tray and this connector.
I am using Hella DOT housings, and Phillips Xtreme +130 bulbs, with the blue coating removed, in them.
These bulbs are not long life, and this new battery tray will complicate bulb changes, taking a few minutes rather than the 30 seconds it took when there was no battery tray here.
This lowered battery tray also eliminates the future potential use of LEDs in these housings, Should LEDs ever be able to properly function in a halogen housing at some point in the future.
While there are plenty of H4 LEDs I could have been using up until now, LED bulbs installed inside housing designed for a halogen filament, are a giant Fuck you to everybody driving on the other side of the road, screaming ignorant inconsiderate selfie taking narcissist, I try to not be like those ducking fouchebags.
Anyway another example of a small job becoming epic in proportion.
But the largest easily obtainable 12v starter battery shoehorned into the stock location, does have benefits.
The second 50/120 Nippondenso alternator is mounted and nearly perfectly aligned, but unwired as of yet.
There are Four 6v GC-2 AGMs on my workshop's floor.
190 amps hours, 900 CA. 680 CCA. 480 reserve minutes 140 LBS total 70 Lbs each
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-mari...--15020282
The TPPL AGM g31 Northstar:
103 amp hours, 1380CA. 1050CCA. 220 reserve minutes. 75Lbs.
https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/nsb-agm31
The GC-2's are 4+ years old, but were kept in pretty good shape by a programmable Magnum inverter charger, and rarely ever cycled. I am not quite sure how good of shape they are. When they were still on the boat, I saw them maintain 12.4v powering 40 to 60 amps of inverter load for about an hour, IIRC.
They are more capacity than my workshop needs, as I do have grid power available, So two of them will be going in the Van. Once there I can better judge their remaining capacity.
Right now, 4 of them maintain respectable voltage powering fans and LEDS for hours on end, and when I let loose the 100 amp powermax adjustable voltage power supply on them, they can max it out, which they likely could not if they were not in Ok to good or perhaps better condition.
The underbody battery box was designed to hold two group 27's, which are about 9.25" to the tops of their terminals.
The group 31 is about 9.625" tall to the top of its terminals, and has perhaps 1/8" until the hatch's underside
The GC-2s are taller at 10.5 inches. Some GC-2s go as tall as 11 inches.
Right now, a single group 31 Northstar AGM is my only IN van battery.
The Stock size battery is apparently a 600 CCA group 34 according to RockAuto. I have used a group 24 and a group 27 and even barely shoehorned in a group 31 flooded marine battery on the stock battery tray, in the engine compartment.
I think my Owner's manual states the engine battery needs to be 550 CCA or bigger.
In 2015, that flooded marine group 31 became too wasteful of Solar, and I removed it, and the rusted battery tray it resided upon.
I was modifying the area to fit a large GC-12 size battery, like a Trojan T-1275 or the Lifeline GpL-30HT. This required getting a new Windshield wiper reservoir, and the project started stalling.
While considering the options, I realized the single group 27 Northstar AGM I had, was more than capable of meeting my overnight needs, and still easily start my engine, So the Engine compartment remained free of a battery, or battery tray, until yesterday. That 90 amp hour 930CCA AGM TPPL battery lasted a total of 6 years and had something like 1200 deep cycles on it, many hundred cycles discharged to well below the 50% SOC boogeyman.
It was replaced with a G31 Northstar AGM in Mid December 2019. 103Ah and 1050CCA. This Beastly TPPL AGM battery cranks the engine so quickly it is scary, and it has accepted 134 amps when well depleted. I think somewhere around 160 to 170 amps would be required to instantly reach absorption voltage when well depleted. Soon I will have upto 230 amps available bfrom dual alternators.
That single 31 has been Solo, in the dual 27 tray, behind the driver's seat under a flush fitting hatch in the floor, inside a cabinet one of whose walls is my electrical wall.
None of the wiring/Cabling there is pretty. Functional, problem free, but ugly. Some crappy components, crimped with crappy tools, at different times, to different standards over nearly 20 years.
I want to be able to max out a 2000 watt PSW inverter, that I do not yet own.
I want both alternators to be able to supply at least 1000 watts of that load at hot idle, to that potential 2000 watt load.
I want all that old cabling thickened, properly terminated with professional quality tools and components, and better organized.
The group 27 battery box is just under 10 inches high to the bottom of the hatch.
The AGM GC-2s are 10.5 tall.
The Hatch cover is being rebuilt to accept 11 inch tall batteries with a few CH's extra room atop..
A New group 31 battery tray is Now in place in my engine compartment. I used a door from an older AC electrical box, and some thick angle brackets my old man gave me.
It is mounted about 3/4" lower than the stock battery tray was. I let Ospho etch all the metal and covered it with several layers of Yacht enamel before installing and painting one final layer over it all.
Dodge has some weird drainage with the ram air vents below the windshield, but basically rain water used to be allowed to run under hood and run along the inside of the firewall, and these vents would also allow some water to run inside and into the engine compartment as well.
I used some tool box liner to divert all rainwater, but found water was still getting where I thought it should not be able to.
Strong light and a mirror revealed some cracked original panel adhesive up above the where the stock battery tray resided. A chisel removed the body filler and revealed the rust below.
In removing and treating the rust, the hood got removed, as well as the wiper valance, and both those got treated for rust and repainted.
While Ospho treats and preps both paint and rusted or bare metal for paint quite well, the paint I use requires some 20+ hours between thin coats.
My surfboard epoxy can go on thicker, be more impervious to moisture, and bond significantly stronger to anything it is put upon. All the areas which once had the body panel adhesive , after proper prepwork, were painted with Epoxy, and then the big gaps and holes filled with Epoxy thickened with Milled glass fibers and wood flour. Once that cured and was lightly sanded it was painted. Then the angle brackets/supports and new Battery tray installed and painted again.
I have some HDPE 'starboard' that I cut into 1/8" thick strips and used Amazing goop to adhere to the tray. These will raise the battery up slightly from the bottom of the tray, and while no rainwater should be able to get in/on the battery tray anymore, it will be able to drain if it does.
So the 31 is basically ready to be moved, and then I can work on getting the GC-2s in place and wiring them up.
There is 2 AWG running from Battery tray to 1/2/BOTH/off Ignition switch and to Shunt.
I'd like to replace this with 1/0 or 2/0. but...Ideal costs $$$$$$$$.
According to GenuineDealz,
Quote:The maximum allowable amperage of single conductor 2 AWG marine grade battery cable is 210 amps outside of engine spaces and 178 amps inside the engine space.
If the NS 31 could maintain 11 volts, 2000 watts is a 181 amp load.
But I never intend to run 2000 watts from just the G31, and the Alternators will likely be contributing 50+ amps each on their own 2awg cabling when I 'need' 2000 watts, and the battery switches are rated for 350 amps continuous, if wired with 4/0.
So two battery banks and two Alternators powering the potential 2000 watt load will have 4 runs of 2 awg.
Perhaps not ideal from a voltage drop standpoint, but in all honestly I am not expecting more than 1600 watts of load at any one time.
But I have some leftover 2/0, and only a short run is needed from GC-2s to 1/2/B/O switch.
Likewise the distance between my 3 1/2/B/O switches means I can run 2/0 between them. The Other 2 switches divert the load from either battery, or the solar/ plug in grid powered charging sources to either battery.
I have a shitty Absolute brand '140' amp circuit breaker. This CB is currently on the Alternator to battery switch feed. It once tripped after 5 minutes of 90+ amps and then a few seconds of 110 amps. I later found that the cabling to the switch had a very poor crimp, from 2006 or so. Doubled 6awg from jumpoer cables.
Think hammer and screwdriver and I could wiggle wire and see strands move on the other end of the crimp. Shameful really. I have nearly 8 foot of 2 AWg from the boat, but think I need closer to 11 feet to get from Chrysler alternator to circuit breaker. Making the case for retasking the 2awg from battery switch to engine battery and using 2/0.......
I have a new Cooper Bussman 150 amp circuit breaker. The Chrysler alternator can just slightly exceed its 120 amp rating, the New Nippondenso alternator came in 11 amps shy of its 120 amp rating.
I guess I'll be putting the Absolute 140 amp CB on the ND alternator, and the Bussman on the Chrysler alternator.
My 500 amp Deltec shunt has too many terminals on it, especially the load side.
I want to make a Buss bar that fits on this shunt directly. Big thick copper with fat Studs.
Turns out these free GC-2 batteries are going to cost me a lot of time and money, as I cant seem to not upgrade everything just in case I need to be in the middle of nowhere and power a tablesaw without having to carry a generator.
Still need to wire up the second alternator. I have the second voltage regulator all modded for external control, but need to incorporate switches to turn on either or or both.
Also want to be able to see amperage from each alternator, and amperage into / out of each battery bank
not enough room on dash for these displays.
I got two more of the hall effect ammeters, same as already on my Dash, and one which claims to be am amp hour counter battery monitor as well, but I think it just reverts to '100%' as soon as the preprogrammed absorption voltage is reached. I've not yet really played with it yet, other than to see if it lit up with voltage applied.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC300V-400A-LCD-Hall-Effect-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Battery-Capacity-Coulometer-Sensor/174047263019?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item288606792b:g:9BoAAOSwnXpdkHiq&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkSG%252BOFgrj2Yvbvmrj2TAdM3PJ1eaPAHxkaTJuCcI%252BHZS%252F9%252F7KDp1em4H3NA1eBrcFV%252BS6Yveujf9Jjj8kZ8DCOVwH8r9lWCvi7OhsMEg1tkZg2vmRnrjIzsBpj4wIpZDxoSa5exLWKifeP3%252BHTMrOIalB%252FTVDo4TvUXGDiBHx6zRaPb6HdVQ9TePvUWFlChe6tnY%252BRkgBHa1VOe7GmYBMSIrcy1HZBl9H8kUo8gpwNs0Xqo2OI7FLpn44%252B1Rpar%252FliLELgKwShvI4wIUsWpbWSFlVJUBvT6Dnv4O%252FniaDCgcFo5tCbtmX8enx8Ie6HeqmTAP%252FErtCsXBY%252F2dX%252FUk99ALNwfOoTi9QQ9PTOHMAxuF7bUa%252BL4TXNboNj1A%252Brm%252BzgIUnNeeqbHq8uYp28dayYWF3REXMwj%252BWsPHHn65qk8xeaoHCWF6PQgcO4Eg%252B1j19m8iLyXf05WY6fq6r3FfhEELwmTvJGwubhZ1%252BLU34zvqV2xmiMya9F110WmjpOvMEJ21tPFn6sFjWAWcAXRVkAvVWB2DeuuIh1ftgO6p648Ru8g5VMOhs3zptH8Pc1Ul32iMdLISSZra9%252B5wX%252F71YoJyCY4gpmOLdqJ9%252BEgcf3HnrI%252FMvMaQ15RYR1inJpKTioV1I3EqV2aUrvUZRZB6OWuT93ij%252FZ0aB6vp%252BLNvodFtiew256j35ILZYetJ%252FNmI8Z9Vo%252FjsniFUxZUWVbg42A7jBQHOdzZsyxwjVAmP8YjJ7tyrSYLFJNCV%252BIpGiKPUAdB4kIiKo%252Bb7PWW3PPEVpzN%252Fh4U7KX%252BiyeugPFADAjeU%253D%7Ccksum%3A17404726301949e6d1dd0a994859b5ecae6887e2eaab%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
Was hoping to further consolidate my plan, but now I just have a headache.
The cardboard is the maximum dimensions of a group 31 footprint. The actual footing is slightly smaller.
While I only recently got the battery tray installed, I did wind up painting the area white in 2015. The grey black areas are where the original panel adhesive was. The grey is primer and original paint color, the black is rust turned black by the Ospho.
The Orange plastic is the ceramic H4/9003/HB4 headlight socket with the hard to find 12 AWG pigtails for maximum voltage delivery to filament and thus max brightness.
ThisH4 headlight Connector determined the height of the battery tray.
I have about 1/4 inch gap between the bottom of the tray and this connector.
I am using Hella DOT housings, and Phillips Xtreme +130 bulbs, with the blue coating removed, in them.
These bulbs are not long life, and this new battery tray will complicate bulb changes, taking a few minutes rather than the 30 seconds it took when there was no battery tray here.
This lowered battery tray also eliminates the future potential use of LEDs in these housings, Should LEDs ever be able to properly function in a halogen housing at some point in the future.
While there are plenty of H4 LEDs I could have been using up until now, LED bulbs installed inside housing designed for a halogen filament, are a giant Fuck you to everybody driving on the other side of the road, screaming ignorant inconsiderate selfie taking narcissist, I try to not be like those ducking fouchebags.
Anyway another example of a small job becoming epic in proportion.
But the largest easily obtainable 12v starter battery shoehorned into the stock location, does have benefits.
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