I have this idea and it is probably crazy but...

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Mo's rig still makes sense to me in regular dirt. Certainly not in clay. We have a great plenty of that here, and I can testify to its water-holding characteristics.

I agree with you that it would probably be fine most places.  But even when we are not talking clay, but rather rocky or sandy desert, it's probably not going to be a good idea due to the absence of plant matter and microbial activity in such soils.  A desert can be a surprisingly fragile ecosystem.

And Mo was talking about boondocking in AZ, IIRC.

[TrainChaser]

OP, I know most of that.  One would HOPE that a reasonable percentage of the people boondocking have enough working brain cells to adapt to the location.  After all, there is a whole world beyond Quartzsite. But maybe I'm overestimating them.

My point is that people (Americans, especially) obsess about filth and germs to a point somewhere beyond paranoia.  AND they only focus on small parts of it, based on the quick bit of information offered by TV and YouTube videos.

For instance, I've posted about collecting rainwater on a clean new clear plastic tarp, and lots of people jump in saying that you need to filter and purify it to drink it.  They cry about bacteria, and bad things in the air that will fall with the rain, and poison them to death.  They don't know what those 'bad things' in the air are, but they know they're there and they're deadly, because their govt and the media told them so.

At the same time, they're drinking from a tap that comes directly from a well that hasn't been tested in 20 years and contains farm runoff (chemical fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides), a natural spring that hasn't been tested in multiple years, or from a cistern that is pumped directly from a groundwater source, and the owner dumps chlorine in it once a year.  OR they're drinking purchased bottled water that had only minimal filtration, and was immediately bottled and shipped to market.  Filtration only catches particles, it doesn't catch liquified contaminants.  And they're paying good money for it.  The tap water they're drinking from bottles costs about 300 TIMES as much as tap water from a faucet.  People can be trained to believe anything... except the fact that they're being swindled or lied to.

When you ask someone who fears rainwater harvesting EXACTLY what they fear, you can see them scrounging around in their brain for an answer, and the only thing they can come up with is 'air pollution'.  What kind of air pollution?  Well, they don't know.  They just know enough to fear it.  American education at it's best!

Air Polution 101:  Acid rain is a major fear.  Acid rain has an average pH of 4.0.  Normal rain has a pH of 5.0 to 5.5, still a bit acidic (7.0 is neutral).  ACID RAIN DOESN'T AFFECT HUMANS. Acid rain affects soil, gradually lowering the pH to a point where some types of plants struggle to survive.  People eat and drink acidic foods every day, and some do it ALL DAY:  soda and energy drinks (pH: 3), orange juice (3.3 to 4), artificial sweeteners, beef, beer, cocoa, fried foods, liquor, lobster and other seafood, liquor, white bread and yogurt.

And let's not forget the 'air pollution'.  Most air pollution is found downwind (usually east) of factories.  Most pollution is found in the eastern half of the U.S.  The two biggies are nitrogen dioxide and sulfur dioxide.  But many impurities have been found to attach themselves to raindrops and are removed from the air (that's how the soil becomes acidified).  It takes about 20 minutes for rain to remove a good portion of pollutants from the air. 

All you have to do is let it rain for 20 minutes, then put your clean collection bucket under the drip spout of your tarp.  Transfer it to a clean container.  And you've got clean, drinkable water, that is 20 times cleaner than any groundwater.

But most people are too frightened of everything to do this.  Fear runs their lives.  They would rather drive 20 miles each way from their camp on BLM land to buy water in town that is just plain tap water from the usual faucet.  Plus the cost of gas both ways.

"BE CAREFUL, HONEY!  THE ROADS ARE SLICK FROM THE RAIN!  AND DON'T FORGET TO GET SOME WATER -- WE'RE ALMOST OUT!

Forrest Gump was right.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

At the same time, they're drinking from a tap that comes directly from a well that hasn't been tested in 20 years and contains farm runoff (chemical fertilizers, herbicides, insecticides), a natural spring that hasn't been tested in multiple years, or from a cistern that is pumped directly from a groundwater source, and the owner dumps chlorine in it once a year.  OR they're drinking purchased bottled water that had only minimal filtration, and was immediately bottled and shipped to market.  Filtration only catches particles, it doesn't catch liquified contaminants.  And they're paying good money for it.  The tap water they're drinking from bottles costs about 300 TIMES as much as tap water from a faucet.  People can be trained to believe anything... except the fact that they're being swindled or lied to.

True story.  My grandparents house was built in the 1840s, and didn't get inside plumbing until late in the 1960s.  There was an outhouse, and under a lean-to roof over the kitchen door, an oak barrel was half sunk into the ground, and held the house's water supply.  It was fed from a spring, halfway up the hill behind the house, and fed by a lead pipe that had been in the ground for more than 100 years.  We used to find frogs swimming in the barrel in the summer.  Best tasting drinking water I've ever had!

[Anna]

Trainchaser,

I appreciate the fact that you've been thinking about this.  But I don't think you're aware of some information that affects this issue.  Take a look at this website:

https://burningman.org/event/preparation...ray-water/


For the benefit of some of the other people here, who might not bother going to this website, I've extracted two paragraphs:

*Why is it a problem?* It’s hard to make it disappear. Almost anywhere else in the world, a campsite is near absorbent soil (filled with microbial activity, and usually with plants) where it is safe and decent to dump gray water. But it’s different on the playa, on dried clay, striving to avoid contaminating our surroundings.


 *How dangerous is gray water? What can I do about it?* Gray water is inherently unsanitary. It may contain bacteria, fungi, viruses, or other life. Gray water left to stand untreated in the desert warmth eventually becomes black water as microbial populations increase. To disinfect gray water, and suppress funky aromas, mix in Concentrated Clorox Regular Bleach or other chlorine-based bleach periodically. For some antibiotic-resistant pathogens, chlorine bleach is the only reliable killer.

John,

Though this might be true and the grey water or black water waste might have an adverse effect on the clay soil etc. Most people who decide to live on the road will not have this in mind as a priority and will most often do either what they please if they don't care about the environment and are selfish or will consider their actions as law abiding citizens and look after their environment and surrounds. I can assure you one thing though not everyone will consider the environment and you'll probably find that most of it is tainted soil anyway especially if the area is build up or anywhere near industry or factories where they tend to dump their waste.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

John,

Though this might be true and the grey water or black water waste might have an adverse effect on the clay soil etc. Most people who decide to live on the road will not have this in mind as a priority and will most often do either what they please if they don't care about the environment and are selfish or will consider their actions as law abiding citizens and look after their environment and surrounds. I can assure you one thing though not everyone will consider the environment and you'll probably find that most of it is tainted soil anyway especially if the area is build up or anywhere near industry or factories where they tend to dump their waste.

In my mind, I've actually toyed with the idea of a system that allows the gray water tank to empty, drip by drip, as I drive down the road.  The theory being that there is already so much leaking gasoline, diesel fuel, anti-freeze, transmission fluid, etc landing on it that a little gray water won't hurt it at all.

[TrainChaser]

OP, I've been behind a rig that did that. It wasn't pleasant, AND I ran out of windshield cleaner, and it just smeared the windows.

Anna, I'm not talking a place where there are thousands of people; those places should have planned facilities. Nor am I saying that the waste should be left sitting on the ground. Farmers have been spewing their chemicals for 70 years; you can't find much water downhill from them that isn't contaminated. Toxic industrial waste has been dumped into rivers since the beginning of the industrial revolution, and they're still doing it. Not dumping your graywater is pretty small potatoes in comparison.

I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for ways to solve a problem with minimal damage. It may not be possible in the desert, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life in the desert.

[Optimistic Paranoid]

OP, I've been behind a rig that did that.  It wasn't pleasant, AND I ran out of windshield cleaner, and it just smeared the windows.

Hadn't considered that, thanks for pointing it out.

[TrainChaser]

Also, I don't understand the concept of spreading it around on the surface as opposed to depositing it in a hole, where it has a better chance of breaking down.