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Transmission life optimizers?
#51
Got going end of September after finally getting my stuff together and getting the new cooler in. I'll check the details on that when my laptop isn't nearly out of power. But after a month + on the road, I'm starting to feel as if maybe this thing is going to hang together after all. Thanks for all your help, Stern. I appreciate it. You, too, Popeye, you old pirate.
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  • rvpopeye (01-02-2021)
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#52
Glad to see you checking in ,,,,maybe sooner next time ?
stay tuned 
popeye


 Weirdo Overlord : FMS Fleet Ops , Awards , Badges ,  aka Tamerlane the Impaler Mod.
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#53
Glad to her you are out and about without issue.

I completed my cross country journey with little issue.

I did attach some K type thermocouples to give some idea of TX temperature, but they are hardly conclusive in many ways, at least as to exact fluid temperature.

First I used a binder clip, around a section of reflectix to act as insulation. I'd clamp the clip to the TX hose, then use zip ties to hold the thermocouple and reflextix tightly to the hose, then remove the clip and add more zipties to hold it where the binder clip resided.

Now this is inadequate as to showing true TX fluid temperatures, as the hose is not insulated along its full length, perfectly, and the fluid has several feet of metal lines from the TX output before it reaches the flexible TX hose. Without sensor inside the pan or perhaps on the TX output itself i can;t know true temperature of the fluid within, and I can;t really know how low my TC's are reading in comparison to that benchmark.
I can guess, but even educated experienced guessing sucks festering donkey balls, and so often is wildly inaccurate and does more harm than good.

I never saw more than 126f at the radiator cooler input, an this maximum observed temp was only seen when climbing the rather steep mountain range just east of San Diego when the ambient temps were in the 50's.

However, this was surprising to me, as I have a second thermocouple, after the radiator cooler, after the fin and tube cooler, and after the TX filter, attached and insulated in the same manner.

So while these two thermocouples are not registering the true tx fluid temperature within the hoses, the amount they are off, is likely very similar, and how much lower the fluid is after the radiator cooler, fin and tube cooler, and additional inline filter is, IS comparable.

The After thermocouple, often read HIGHER, than the input thermocouple, Indicating the tx cooler inside the radiator was heating the fluid, and to enough of a degree that the fin and tube cooler and the spin on filter afterwards, were not reducing it below that which it entered the radiator cooler, but I think the term 'heat exchanger' is a much more accurate terms, considering this data as the radiator was heating the fluid more than the aftercooler and filter could cool it.

When it read hotter, was when the engine was working hotter and the thermostat was more open flowing more coolant through the radiator, and thus gheating the TX fluid to hotter temps than which it entered the heat exchanger.

it stands to reason that a hotter running engine, along with a partially clogged/inefficient radiator then heat the fluid to a considerably higher temperature than what it entered the radiator heat exchanger at. And the hot TX fluid is likely heating the coolant returning to the engine even more.

So a radiator with occluded tubes is not only bad for the engine, it is bad for the transmission as well, and both TX and engine are heating each other. Perhaps this is an arguement for not having the raditor heat exchanger in the loop at all, in summer in hot climates, at least on vehicles that send fluid to the cooler independent of any decision by a potential thermostat within the TX itself.

On flat level roads in overdrive at 65mph, the input and output were within 2 degrees of each other and often even closer, usually in the 99 to 111f range but as said earlier I expect actual fluid temperature to be higher than this, perhaps by 50 or more degrees.

I intend to add another layer of longer reflectix to these hoses in order to get a more accurate measurement of the fluid within the hoses.

One thing to also be aware of, which is logical when one thinks about it, is after a drain and fill, simply working the gear lever through all the gears while parked level, and then checked in neutral idling, does not fill up all the nooks and crannies within the TX. In fact just driving it aroud town sub 45mph until warm, still does not fill those nooks and crannies of the overdrive unit. It needs to be in overdrive and lockup at 47+ mph. I found it took 3/4 more of a quart to read the middle of the hatchmarks after spending some time in overdrive, and this is the second time I noticed this, and the factory service manual makes no mention of this behavior. They say to simply get tx warm and move the lever through all the gear settings for several seconds, then put in neutral and check level. This procedure, if never checked again would have one drive around with low fluid levels. Do you think any hinky lubs shop is going to get the level correctly withut getting the TX into top gear on the highway? Much less use the correct fluid and not some maximum profit 'bulk' universal ATF?

Granted i noticed no difference in shifting when it was 3/4 quart low and do not know just how detrimental it is to drive 3/4 quart low, but the A-500 tx's overdrive is the weak link, and perhaps the 3/4 quart low most adversely affects the weakest part of this TX.

I was only able to drop about 4.8 quarts when I opened the drainplug and removed external filter, I was expecting more. That 4.8 quarts includes the 0.75 quarts i added after hitting the highway and checking the level. I did not pour the used tx fluid into a container where I was able to easily infer how much came out, but I knew something was up when 4 quarts level and parked seemed to fill it perfectly. Well i forgot the pint of lubegard red bottle added, so 4.5 quarts.

I did notice that the 2/3 upshift was noticeably smoother and faster after the renewal of the ATF+4 fluid with the full pint of LubeGard red bottle. the fluid I removed was only slightly darker than that which went in, and they smelled the same. This partial fluid exchange was likely wasteful of perfectly good fluid, but added piece of mind is worth the price, to me.

I was so rushed I did not open up the pleats of the TX filter, but I did open it up to use its silicone Antidrainback valve as anew gasket for the oil fill cover on my valve cover, which was leaking. I did not notice any ferrous particles an the interior of the casing where the neodymium magnets were, but pulling the filter element out in order to easily see this, was not required to get the ADBV out.

The fram XG16 mounted horizontally, likely does not fill completely around its circumference at idle, so it is likely partially responsible for that 3/4 low reading after some time on the freeway, but its capacity is only a little over a pint, if that, so at most would likely only be responsible for 1/4 a quart of that low reading.

i think Ideal, for this spin on filter, would be a 3/4-16 threaded filter without the antidrainback valve. I don;t know which filters have this, but some engines incorporate teh bypass and anti drain back valve in the engine block and having one on the filter too, just adds restriction and a potential point of failure and the ADBV in a tx filter application is completely unrequired. I use the fram ultra for its 99% efficiency rating at capturing 25 micron particles or larger, which is unsurpassed by any other full flow filter on the market. Bypass filters only filter a small portion of the oil flow and can capture 98% of particles as small as one micron iirc.

They say the oil film inside engines and transmissions is way thicker than 1 micron so particles of this size do not add substantially to wear, but people like to argue this and just how much effect more efficient filtering of smaller particles have. Without actual data with all potential variables removed, such arguements are pointless, but it makes me feel good to use the highest rated full flow filter, in terms of filtering efficeincy, on the market, whether ultimately beneficial or not.

I have had an ADBV failure on a fram XG8A. it wsa causing extending clacking valve noise on engine start up and when I unscrewed it it was only half full. Its successor XG8a, after my last hourney from florida to califoria was exhibiting this same noise on start up, for a few days after completing the drive, then stopped, and when I replaced it, it was filled to the brim with oil.

I think that long drives can cause even the silicone ADBV, versus the common and Nitrile used on standard filters, to not seaton teh baseplat properly and do its job.

I have switched to a Mobil1 M1-301 filter for this reason/roadtrip, but it does not have as high a filtering efficiency rating, i think it is 98% at 30 microns vs the 995 at 25 microns for the fram ultra.

I really like the Pennzoil platinum 10w-30 as well, it seems to be the quietest oil I have used, and while quiet should seem to indicate less wear is also occurring, many used oil analysis over on oil nerd sites prove that the known 'noisy' oils have no higher particle wear numbers than the supposed 'quiet' oils. As synthetics are only a few bucks more than conventional, I use them as they are likely to last longer before shearing to a lighter viscosity or with excessive use, start to thicken. they are also better at keeping the internals of the engine clean, But they can also clean well enough that engines that did not leak, for crud covering the internal gaskets, start to leak when teh synthetic oils remove the crud.

While Synthetic oil causing oil leaks is based on facts, with some early synthetics actually attacking gaskets, in the '70's, synthetic oils of today do not cause leaks, but they can reveal pre-existing ones that were masked by conventional oil's inability to dissolve the crud blocking the leaking gaskets.

if ihis is a fear on an old engine then stick with conventional. Pennzoil conventional yellow bottle is said to be one of the 'quietest oils' and likely due to its rather high MOS2 content, which has the sliding deck of cards effect between to frictional surfaces, like piston rings against cylinder walls, or bearings against their races.

There is a anther form of Moly, soluble moly, which is said to be more effectitve for lesser PPM, can cannot fall out of suspension with extended sitting. This soluble moly is used in lots of higher quality $ynthetics addpacks, along with their higher quality base stocks.
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  • TWIH (01-03-2021)
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#54
Glad your trip went well, and hope your dad is doing fine.

I noticed that deficit in the manual instructions,too. We dumped, well, added after draining, somewhat less than five quarts. I forgot about the other stuff. After I’d been on the road a bit, I checked levels, and was down maybe half a quart, possibly a bit more. It’s stayed up the couple of times I’ve checked it since.

I think I mentioned before that I’d added a temperature gauge. Can’t swear to the accuracy, but do know that it is now reading a lot lower than before, usually between 100-120, whereas before it was 150 plus, at minimum. Haven’t gone up any good hills, yet.

I changed the filter in the pan and put in the Magnets, and got a pan with a drain in it. The cooler is a Tru-cool LPD4588, and a magnetic inline filter. Just didn’t have the wherewithal to put in the good filter like yours, but am keeping my fingers crossed that this’ll do for the time being.

I definitely noticed that it shifted more smoothly. Enough so that I was a little worried something had gone wrong. I’m wary of any significant change! Which, I guess precludes going to a synthetic oil, but I do have 10W-30 in there.

Thanks, Stern.
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#55
Dad is doing well. Thanks, He and Fiona love to play tug of war and ball and there is not a squirrel within 200 yards of the back door which is not aware of the fluffy goofball's anti-squirrel fury. The circling hawks or perhaps turkey buzzards get mistaken for crows, and they get the head shaking, ball in mouth, barkfury athon, which cracks me up every time.

Where is the sensor location for your temp gauge....perhaps the seemingly low TX temperature readings I am observing with K-type thermocouples attached to flexible hoses and insulated, are not ridiculously low.

That's an impressive cooler you installed.

I can pretty easily relocate the thermocouples. I should put on on the radiator heat exchanger output to see just how much heat the tx fluid is gaining passing through it.
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#56
Sounds like a good visit. I think you’re really lucky that Fiona chose you. As is she.

The temp sensor goes in the transmission test port, so should be somewhere near realistic, I’d think.
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Official YARC ship’s navigator.
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#57
(01-03-2021, 09:16 AM)heron Wrote: Sounds like a good visit. I think you’re really lucky that Fiona chose you. As is she.

The temp sensor goes in the transmission test port, so should be somewhere near realistic, I’d think.

Thanks.  One site says the pressure test port likely reads 10F higher than that of the fluid in the pan.

https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/best...re-gauges/

Quote:An easier way of installing the transmission temperature sensor is with the pressure port on the site of your transmission. This would require you to find the pressure port location and removing the plug it its place.

While this is an easy way of installing the trans temp sensor, it may not give the most accurate reading.  The pressure port on most transmission is higher up and on the case of the transmission, so typically temps may read a little higher compared to being in the pan.  The consensus is that pan mounted temp sensors read about 10 degrees cooler than those in the case or pressure port.
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#58
But isn't the point to show the highest temperature the fluid is getting?
OK , there's no fluid in that spot , is there ?
I added a temp indicator in my class A (727 torqueflight behind a 440-3 ~ 15,000 #) but same temp range required.
The sensor port was brazed into my pan somewhere ?
I don't remember exactly , just wherever the sensor wouldn't hit anything.
They put a drain plug and a new filter in too. Replaced a lot more fluid than just in the pan by opening up the output tube while running (I think?)
When the temp started to climb , I slowed down and downshifted. I was told the tranny loved being shifted manually !?
That usually kept if under control...

Now , we need to start a thread on braking on the way down the other side of those big hills without overheating them?
..skuh kuh kuh kuh
stay tuned 
popeye


 Weirdo Overlord : FMS Fleet Ops , Awards , Badges ,  aka Tamerlane the Impaler Mod.
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  • heron (01-08-2021)
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